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Lionel Shriver returns to Thinking Class to discuss her new novel A Better Life—and why immigration looks different from the host-country’s perspective.

We explore moral complexity, belonging, the rule of law, and what happens when policy becomes lived reality.
Lionel Shriver on Immigration, Demography, and Belonging In The West
We start with Lionel’s new novel, A Better Life, which tackles immigration through fiction from the host country’s point of view. We explore why the “native-born” perspective is rarely told, what happens when immigration becomes mass-scale, and why voters increasingly feel unheard as demography, welfare states, and legal frameworks collide.

We also discuss:
- the moral complexity of immigration,
- why “a better life” can become an argument for open borders,
- how asylum systems are gamed,
- the sex divide on immigration,
- the feminisation of institutions,
- the crisis of male purpose,
and whether low birth-rates signal a culture that no longer believes in itself.

Support Lionel Shriver's work:

Books: https://amzn.to/4apdqQF

A Better Life: https://amzn.to/4c3nPCJ

Lionel Shriver at The Spectator: https://spectator.com/writer/lionel-shriver/

About Thinking Class:

Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot takes. Expect a historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

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CHAPTERS
00:00 – Introduction: why immigration is now an irreversible policy, not an abstraction
01:28 – Why Lionel wrote about immigration through fiction
05:51 – The “host country” rage & why voters feel unheard
11:15 – The Bonaventura family: why these characters, why this setup
12:34 – Nico: stasis, dependency, and hypocrisy
21:04 – “A better life” as an argument (and why it’s not decisive)
27:18 – Human universals: territory, belonging, and denial
31:02 – Gender divide: nurturing abstraction vs lived community
39:19 – What a “male” immigration policy would prioritise
45:21 – Emasculation, protection, and the home-invasion logic
49:02 – Demography: children, inheritance, and legitimacy
51:49 – Due process, asylum gaming, and the limits of the rule of law
55:09 – What Lionel changed her mind on: from overpopulation to pronatalism